1 00:00:04,917 --> 00:00:08,269 [audio logo] 2 00:00:08,399 --> 00:00:11,881 [theme music] 3 00:00:20,585 --> 00:00:23,023 >> Today on "Cosmic Disclosure," we are with Richard Doty, 4 00:00:23,153 --> 00:00:25,677 a retired special agent who served in the Air Force Office 5 00:00:25,808 --> 00:00:27,114 of Special Investigations. 6 00:00:27,244 --> 00:00:29,072 Richard was intimately involved with UFO, 7 00:00:29,203 --> 00:00:30,856 ET-related intelligence. 8 00:00:30,987 --> 00:00:34,338 Today we're talking about a UFO and a nuclear weapons incident. 9 00:00:34,469 --> 00:00:36,036 Richard, welcome to the show. 10 00:00:36,166 --> 00:00:36,862 >> Thank you, Emery. 11 00:00:36,993 --> 00:00:37,776 Good to be here. 12 00:00:37,907 --> 00:00:39,300 >> What is Coyote Canyon? 13 00:00:39,430 --> 00:00:42,172 And what actually happened in September of 1980? 14 00:00:42,303 --> 00:00:46,481 >> Well, Coyote Canyon is a area on the eastern side of Kirtland 15 00:00:46,611 --> 00:00:48,222 Air Force Base. 16 00:00:48,352 --> 00:00:53,705 It houses a test range, both classified and unclassified 17 00:00:53,836 --> 00:00:56,882 test range, and also, during that time period, 18 00:00:57,013 --> 00:00:58,841 housed the largest nuclear weapons 19 00:00:58,971 --> 00:01:00,538 storage area in the world. 20 00:01:00,669 --> 00:01:02,801 It was called Manzano Base. 21 00:01:02,932 --> 00:01:08,546 Back in the '50s and early '60s, the United States military 22 00:01:08,677 --> 00:01:12,376 and the Atomic Energy Commission built structures 23 00:01:12,507 --> 00:01:15,945 inside that mountain to manufacture 24 00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:19,340 nuclear weapons, both the fission weapon and the fusion 25 00:01:19,470 --> 00:01:20,950 weapons. 26 00:01:21,081 --> 00:01:23,953 All fission and fusion weapons during that time period, 27 00:01:24,084 --> 00:01:27,957 actually from the late '40s all the way up to the '70s, 28 00:01:28,088 --> 00:01:30,873 were manufactured inside Manzano Base, 29 00:01:31,003 --> 00:01:32,962 and that's where they housed them 30 00:01:33,093 --> 00:01:35,486 after they were put together. 31 00:01:35,617 --> 00:01:39,925 Before the manufacturing process moved to Pantex in Texas, 32 00:01:40,056 --> 00:01:41,623 everything was done at Manzano. 33 00:01:41,753 --> 00:01:45,844 But in 1980, Coyote Canyon was a classified testing area. 34 00:01:45,975 --> 00:01:49,065 And, of course, Manzano Base was located in that area. 35 00:01:49,196 --> 00:01:50,327 >> Right, exactly. 36 00:01:50,458 --> 00:01:51,937 Which brings us to the next question, 37 00:01:52,068 --> 00:01:55,463 who was involved of this investigation of this event? 38 00:01:55,593 --> 00:01:59,554 >> How it started was security police guarded Manzano Base. 39 00:01:59,684 --> 00:02:02,122 They had perimeter guards all over the base. 40 00:02:02,252 --> 00:02:05,734 I think each shift had something like 70 to 80 security 41 00:02:05,864 --> 00:02:08,171 policemen guarding inside Manzano. 42 00:02:08,302 --> 00:02:11,479 Plus, there's alarm structures all over Manzano Base. 43 00:02:11,609 --> 00:02:14,830 >> Pressure sensors, six different fences with very high 44 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,399 voltage, and some amazingly mean K-9 units. 45 00:02:18,529 --> 00:02:20,140 >> Exactly. 46 00:02:20,270 --> 00:02:22,838 And the K-9s patrolled within a certain area of the fence. 47 00:02:22,968 --> 00:02:27,799 And as you said, the entire second layer of the fence 48 00:02:27,930 --> 00:02:29,192 was electrified. 49 00:02:29,323 --> 00:02:30,715 But getting back to the original story, 50 00:02:30,846 --> 00:02:33,109 a security police were on duty one night, 51 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,633 and he saw this light moving into the Canyon. 52 00:02:35,764 --> 00:02:38,201 And it kept moving around inside the Canyon 53 00:02:38,332 --> 00:02:39,898 area, which would have been east of them, 54 00:02:40,029 --> 00:02:41,900 the east side of Manzano. 55 00:02:42,031 --> 00:02:44,599 When the security policeman observed this light 56 00:02:44,729 --> 00:02:47,384 moving in and out of the Canyon area, 57 00:02:47,515 --> 00:02:50,082 he immediately notified their supervisor, 58 00:02:50,213 --> 00:02:53,085 who notified central security control. 59 00:02:53,216 --> 00:02:55,958 Central security control controlled the security police 60 00:02:56,088 --> 00:02:57,481 force. 61 00:02:57,612 --> 00:03:01,355 The supervisor asked CSC to contact Sandia National 62 00:03:01,485 --> 00:03:06,142 Laboratories, because Sandia had some bunkers in that area, 63 00:03:06,273 --> 00:03:08,188 which would have been outside Manzano, 64 00:03:08,318 --> 00:03:12,844 and asked Sandia's control center to contact 65 00:03:12,975 --> 00:03:16,892 their security forces, which patrols that area, 66 00:03:17,022 --> 00:03:19,460 and determine whether they saw what the security police were 67 00:03:19,590 --> 00:03:21,244 seeing. 68 00:03:21,375 --> 00:03:24,204 Sandia National Laboratories was on Kirtland Air Force Base. 69 00:03:24,334 --> 00:03:28,556 Back in the '80s, they had, I think, 80 buildings all 70 00:03:28,686 --> 00:03:30,949 over the eastern side of the base, 71 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,952 including in Coyote Canyon. 72 00:03:34,083 --> 00:03:38,914 They had classified storage areas and plus classified 73 00:03:39,044 --> 00:03:40,089 testing areas. 74 00:03:40,220 --> 00:03:42,439 And what Sandia did-- 75 00:03:42,570 --> 00:03:46,835 a side note-- is they tested nuclear weapons 76 00:03:46,965 --> 00:03:49,620 out there, non-nuclear testing of nuclear weapons, 77 00:03:49,751 --> 00:03:53,363 dropping them from a distance, testing the outer structures 78 00:03:53,494 --> 00:03:55,713 of them, testing the components, whether they 79 00:03:55,844 --> 00:03:58,716 would break if they were dropped from some distance. 80 00:03:58,847 --> 00:04:02,546 So that testing was done out in Coyote Canyon, 81 00:04:02,677 --> 00:04:05,549 and that's why it was called a classified testing area. 82 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,944 And not only did Sandia test out there, 83 00:04:09,074 --> 00:04:11,816 but Los Alamos also had a testing site 84 00:04:11,947 --> 00:04:15,646 out there along with the Air Force weapons laboratory, which 85 00:04:15,777 --> 00:04:17,909 at that time was on Kirtland. 86 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,217 And finally, the National Security Agency 87 00:04:21,348 --> 00:04:23,741 had a highly classified location, 88 00:04:23,872 --> 00:04:25,700 which was built into a mountain out there. 89 00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:27,397 And this isn't classified anymore. 90 00:04:27,528 --> 00:04:30,531 But they were doing laser testing inside this mountain. 91 00:04:30,661 --> 00:04:32,054 The mountain, I think, was something 92 00:04:32,184 --> 00:04:34,709 like a half a mile long inside. 93 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,538 I believe you might know more about that. 94 00:04:37,668 --> 00:04:40,889 Anyways, the security policemen continued watching 95 00:04:41,019 --> 00:04:43,239 this light moving in and out. 96 00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:47,635 Sandia security control told central security control 97 00:04:47,765 --> 00:04:49,637 that they had a security guard in the area, 98 00:04:49,767 --> 00:04:51,203 and he was going to check things out. 99 00:04:51,334 --> 00:04:53,902 So we jumped to the security guard. 100 00:04:54,032 --> 00:04:57,514 Sandia National security have their own security force. 101 00:04:57,645 --> 00:05:03,781 And it's a large force, almost exclusively retired military, 102 00:05:03,912 --> 00:05:06,480 either retired military policemen, 103 00:05:06,610 --> 00:05:10,484 retired military infantry people, or even special forces, 104 00:05:10,614 --> 00:05:12,094 almost all of them. 105 00:05:12,224 --> 00:05:14,923 >> And different specialties training as well, 106 00:05:15,053 --> 00:05:16,707 compared to the regular MP, SP. 107 00:05:16,838 --> 00:05:17,752 >> Exactly. 108 00:05:17,882 --> 00:05:20,015 And they were highly trained. 109 00:05:20,145 --> 00:05:22,365 They had to go through an extensive program. 110 00:05:22,496 --> 00:05:24,933 They weren't just a security guard you hire off the street. 111 00:05:25,063 --> 00:05:27,196 They had to go through-- because they were controlling 112 00:05:27,327 --> 00:05:30,547 and guarding restricted data areas, which 113 00:05:30,678 --> 00:05:31,983 meant nuclear materials. 114 00:05:32,114 --> 00:05:34,508 Maybe not necessarily nuclear weapons, 115 00:05:34,638 --> 00:05:38,425 but materials that went inside the nuclear weapons. 116 00:05:38,555 --> 00:05:41,471 They had nuclear pit storage areas out there. 117 00:05:41,602 --> 00:05:45,649 They had nuclear component areas that were stored out there. 118 00:05:45,780 --> 00:05:49,131 So this particular bunker that this incident happened in 119 00:05:49,261 --> 00:05:52,700 had some nuclear material in it. 120 00:05:52,830 --> 00:05:56,704 Plus, it was an experimental bunker. 121 00:05:56,834 --> 00:06:00,490 The way the bunkers before was built, 122 00:06:00,621 --> 00:06:04,973 it's a huge concrete bunker, blast doors on the front. 123 00:06:05,103 --> 00:06:07,323 And they would store the nuclear weapons inside. 124 00:06:07,454 --> 00:06:10,544 This particular bunker, the way they did it was they 125 00:06:10,674 --> 00:06:12,894 had a platform inside with an elevator 126 00:06:13,024 --> 00:06:14,548 that went down 60 feet. 127 00:06:14,678 --> 00:06:18,073 So they'd put the nuclear weapon on this platform 128 00:06:18,203 --> 00:06:21,772 and then dropped it down 60 feet under this bunker. 129 00:06:21,903 --> 00:06:25,820 So if a terrorist was to penetrate this bunker, 130 00:06:25,950 --> 00:06:27,082 nuclear weapon wasn't there. 131 00:06:27,212 --> 00:06:29,345 It was 60 feet underground. 132 00:06:29,476 --> 00:06:32,348 So at this particular time, 1980, 133 00:06:32,479 --> 00:06:36,265 they had, nuclear material stored in that bunker. 134 00:06:36,396 --> 00:06:38,398 So it was alarmed. 135 00:06:38,528 --> 00:06:42,967 As this one Sandia security guard was patrolling out there, 136 00:06:43,098 --> 00:06:44,839 he saw this light too. 137 00:06:44,969 --> 00:06:47,755 And I interviewed him extensively later. 138 00:06:47,885 --> 00:06:50,801 And he saw this light, and he watched it. 139 00:06:50,932 --> 00:06:52,934 And he thought, well, it has to be a helicopter. 140 00:06:53,064 --> 00:06:56,372 Because the 1550th air crew test and training 141 00:06:56,503 --> 00:06:58,679 wing, which was an Air Force unit, 142 00:06:58,809 --> 00:07:00,507 also conducted training out there 143 00:07:00,637 --> 00:07:02,770 of different types of helicopters, 144 00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:08,166 Jolly Green Giant helicopters, HH-53 helicopters, H-1s. 145 00:07:08,297 --> 00:07:10,168 But he wasn't notified that there was going 146 00:07:10,299 --> 00:07:11,605 to be any testing out there. 147 00:07:11,735 --> 00:07:13,781 And this was late at night. 148 00:07:13,911 --> 00:07:15,826 So he watched this light from a distance. 149 00:07:15,957 --> 00:07:17,480 And he hadn't approached the bunker yet. 150 00:07:17,611 --> 00:07:19,221 He was some distance from the bunker. 151 00:07:19,351 --> 00:07:21,789 He was patrolling other areas out there. 152 00:07:21,919 --> 00:07:24,052 Now, all of a sudden he sees this light. 153 00:07:24,182 --> 00:07:26,707 And as it got lower and lower, he 154 00:07:26,837 --> 00:07:30,101 realized there was a shape to the light. 155 00:07:30,232 --> 00:07:33,104 And it was a flying saucer, as he described 156 00:07:33,235 --> 00:07:36,934 it, a round-shaped disk. 157 00:07:37,065 --> 00:07:40,068 And it landed directly in front of this alarm area. 158 00:07:40,198 --> 00:07:42,984 >> Why would a extraterrestrial be interested in any nuclear 159 00:07:43,114 --> 00:07:46,378 or biostorage units? 160 00:07:46,509 --> 00:07:49,599 >> Well, probably for a lot of reasons. 161 00:07:49,730 --> 00:07:51,035 So the security guard approached. 162 00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:51,949 He drove up. 163 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:53,037 He's in a pickup truck. 164 00:07:53,168 --> 00:07:55,475 He drives up and parks. 165 00:07:55,605 --> 00:07:57,607 Now, a little background on the security guard-- 166 00:07:57,738 --> 00:08:00,392 he was retired from the United States Army. 167 00:08:00,523 --> 00:08:01,916 He was a Vietnam veteran. 168 00:08:02,046 --> 00:08:02,873 This is 1980. 169 00:08:03,004 --> 00:08:04,701 So he had been in Vietnam. 170 00:08:04,832 --> 00:08:07,487 He was a door gunner on a helicopter, 171 00:08:07,617 --> 00:08:12,492 and then he was also a ground soldier, just infantry. 172 00:08:12,622 --> 00:08:18,193 And then he got out and been with Sandia for 10 or 11 years. 173 00:08:18,323 --> 00:08:19,934 >> So he knew aircraft very well. 174 00:08:20,064 --> 00:08:22,371 >> He knew aircraft very well and he knew helicopters very 175 00:08:22,502 --> 00:08:24,678 well because he flew in them in Vietnam. 176 00:08:24,808 --> 00:08:28,899 So he saw this, and he realized it's not a helicopter. 177 00:08:29,030 --> 00:08:32,294 He thought, well, maybe it's an experimental craft 178 00:08:32,424 --> 00:08:36,646 that somebody, somebody that's using this test range 179 00:08:36,777 --> 00:08:40,041 is flying, and maybe it accidentally landed. 180 00:08:40,171 --> 00:08:41,782 Maybe it was trouble. 181 00:08:41,912 --> 00:08:43,697 Maybe it was supposed to land in another area, test range. 182 00:08:43,827 --> 00:08:45,481 Because remember, there's thousands of acres 183 00:08:45,612 --> 00:08:46,743 of the test range out there. 184 00:08:46,874 --> 00:08:47,527 It isn't that-- 185 00:08:47,657 --> 00:08:48,397 >> It's enormous. 186 00:08:48,528 --> 00:08:49,572 >> Yeah. 187 00:08:49,703 --> 00:08:51,313 So he's trying to call on a radio, 188 00:08:51,443 --> 00:08:52,836 and his radio doesn't work. 189 00:08:52,967 --> 00:08:54,577 There's nothing but static jam. 190 00:08:54,708 --> 00:08:56,579 And then, all of a sudden, the engine 191 00:08:56,710 --> 00:08:59,234 shuts off on his pickup truck. 192 00:08:59,364 --> 00:09:03,238 So then he had a shotgun and a handgun. 193 00:09:03,368 --> 00:09:07,938 So he got his shotgun out, and he got out of his vehicle. 194 00:09:08,069 --> 00:09:09,897 And he just watched. 195 00:09:10,027 --> 00:09:12,987 He didn't know what this thing was going to do. 196 00:09:13,117 --> 00:09:15,250 He still thought, all the time during this time period, 197 00:09:15,380 --> 00:09:17,905 he still thought it was some experimental craft. 198 00:09:18,035 --> 00:09:20,429 >> Was it Sandia security or Kirtland Air Force security? 199 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:21,952 >> This is Sandia security. 200 00:09:22,083 --> 00:09:23,084 >> And he couldn't do anything because he had no 201 00:09:23,214 --> 00:09:24,259 communication. 202 00:09:24,389 --> 00:09:26,087 >> Right. 203 00:09:26,217 --> 00:09:29,438 He had no communications, no way of notifying his command center 204 00:09:29,569 --> 00:09:30,744 or anyone else. 205 00:09:30,874 --> 00:09:31,527 >> Wow. 206 00:09:31,658 --> 00:09:32,789 >> He used tactics. 207 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,574 He moved away from the pickup truck. 208 00:09:34,704 --> 00:09:38,403 He thought, well, OK, if this isn't an Air Force test 209 00:09:38,534 --> 00:09:42,886 vehicle, if it's an extraterrestrial or maybe 210 00:09:43,017 --> 00:09:46,803 a Soviet, they're going to try to destroy my vehicle first. 211 00:09:46,934 --> 00:09:49,284 So he moves away from that, and there's 212 00:09:49,414 --> 00:09:53,593 another utility building some distance away from him 213 00:09:53,723 --> 00:09:55,290 that housed-- 214 00:09:55,420 --> 00:09:58,554 it was a water pump and a building, a concrete building. 215 00:09:58,685 --> 00:10:00,991 So he ran over to that and stood there. 216 00:10:01,122 --> 00:10:05,648 And all of a sudden, the bottom of this flying saucer 217 00:10:05,779 --> 00:10:07,041 opened up. 218 00:10:07,171 --> 00:10:11,393 He said, it was just like an egg that opened, 219 00:10:11,523 --> 00:10:12,873 and the stairs came down. 220 00:10:13,003 --> 00:10:16,877 And then, these two entities came down. 221 00:10:17,007 --> 00:10:19,096 He said, they floated. 222 00:10:19,227 --> 00:10:21,490 They didn't walk. 223 00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:25,799 And then he realized, this is not conventional, 224 00:10:25,929 --> 00:10:27,452 and this is not terrestrial. 225 00:10:27,583 --> 00:10:28,932 It's got to be extraterrestrial. 226 00:10:29,063 --> 00:10:32,196 Because he's looking at these two entities 227 00:10:32,327 --> 00:10:33,720 that are very small. 228 00:10:33,850 --> 00:10:37,854 He'd say, probably 4 foot, with huge heads. 229 00:10:37,985 --> 00:10:40,248 Or he thought, first, they were heads, 230 00:10:40,378 --> 00:10:42,467 but as they started getting closer to him, 231 00:10:42,598 --> 00:10:44,600 he realized they were helmets. 232 00:10:44,731 --> 00:10:48,125 And they had a breathing apparatus that ran around 233 00:10:48,256 --> 00:10:50,693 to tanks on its back. 234 00:10:50,824 --> 00:10:53,130 They had these strange-looking hands, either that, 235 00:10:53,261 --> 00:10:55,437 or he thought maybe they were gloves 236 00:10:55,567 --> 00:10:58,570 that rotated 360 degrees. 237 00:10:58,701 --> 00:11:00,094 >> Wow. 238 00:11:00,224 --> 00:11:02,400 >> And then he thought, as they moved towards him, 239 00:11:02,531 --> 00:11:04,576 his first thought was they were robots. 240 00:11:04,707 --> 00:11:06,143 >> Right. 241 00:11:06,274 --> 00:11:09,451 >> He said, the first thing I thought of, was "Lost 242 00:11:09,581 --> 00:11:13,020 in Space," that robot in "Lost in Space," where they could-- 243 00:11:13,150 --> 00:11:15,370 he thought, well-- then, he started 244 00:11:15,500 --> 00:11:16,980 thinking, OK, if they're robots, maybe 245 00:11:17,111 --> 00:11:18,503 it is an Air Force project. 246 00:11:18,634 --> 00:11:21,681 And they're using robots as pilots. 247 00:11:21,811 --> 00:11:24,422 >> Well, he must have been very close to get such detailed 248 00:11:24,553 --> 00:11:25,815 information by looking. 249 00:11:25,946 --> 00:11:26,773 I mean, was he-- 250 00:11:26,903 --> 00:11:28,122 >> He was about 200 feet. 251 00:11:28,252 --> 00:11:29,210 >> 200 feet, OK. 252 00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:30,690 That's close. 253 00:11:30,820 --> 00:11:32,692 >> But the two entities were moving towards him. 254 00:11:32,822 --> 00:11:33,910 They knew he was there. 255 00:11:34,041 --> 00:11:35,607 I mean, even though he was hiding, 256 00:11:35,738 --> 00:11:37,784 they knew he was there somehow because they 257 00:11:37,914 --> 00:11:39,220 kept moving towards him. 258 00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:44,138 So he realized, well, I have to defend myself. 259 00:11:44,268 --> 00:11:45,095 I have to defend what-- 260 00:11:45,226 --> 00:11:47,010 I have to do my job. 261 00:11:47,141 --> 00:11:49,404 So he chambered a round in his shotgun, 262 00:11:49,534 --> 00:11:54,235 and it was an 870 Remington, a 12-gauge shotgun. 263 00:11:54,365 --> 00:11:57,891 And he had four slugs in the shotgun. 264 00:11:58,021 --> 00:11:59,936 So he pointed it at the two entities, 265 00:12:00,067 --> 00:12:04,071 and he yelled, stop, halt. I'm security. 266 00:12:04,201 --> 00:12:04,854 They did. 267 00:12:04,985 --> 00:12:06,377 They stopped. 268 00:12:06,508 --> 00:12:09,554 And they seemed more concerned with that pickup. 269 00:12:09,685 --> 00:12:11,208 One of them, then-- 270 00:12:11,339 --> 00:12:12,601 he said, floating. 271 00:12:12,732 --> 00:12:16,083 They didn't walk-- over towards his pickup. 272 00:12:16,213 --> 00:12:18,999 But they didn't approach him any farther. 273 00:12:19,129 --> 00:12:21,828 >> Were they far off the ground or just even with the ground 274 00:12:21,958 --> 00:12:23,873 almost with their feet? 275 00:12:24,004 --> 00:12:28,095 You said, they levitated towards his vehicle. 276 00:12:28,225 --> 00:12:29,879 >> He said floated. 277 00:12:30,010 --> 00:12:32,273 And they were maybe a foot off the ground, I think, he said. 278 00:12:32,403 --> 00:12:36,625 Anyways, he didn't feel a threat any longer because the entity 279 00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:38,453 wasn't moving towards him. 280 00:12:38,583 --> 00:12:40,237 He was concerned that what they were going 281 00:12:40,368 --> 00:12:41,935 to do to the pickup truck. 282 00:12:42,065 --> 00:12:44,067 Although, it's the Sandia National Laboratories pickup. 283 00:12:44,198 --> 00:12:45,634 He just thought, well, what are they 284 00:12:45,765 --> 00:12:47,070 going to do with this pickup? 285 00:12:47,201 --> 00:12:49,464 But the other end, you went over, and kind of 286 00:12:49,594 --> 00:12:50,944 moved around it. 287 00:12:51,074 --> 00:12:53,294 He couldn't really see everything it was doing. 288 00:12:53,424 --> 00:12:57,254 But the other one kept watching its partner. 289 00:12:57,385 --> 00:13:00,518 And eventually, the other one turned around. 290 00:13:00,649 --> 00:13:02,390 And he turned around-- 291 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,348 and this is why the security guard 292 00:13:04,479 --> 00:13:06,220 kept thinking it was a robot. 293 00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:08,309 It turned around mechanically, not 294 00:13:08,439 --> 00:13:12,748 like a human would do, and moved back towards the craft. 295 00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:18,101 But as it got towards the craft, it veered more to the right 296 00:13:18,232 --> 00:13:20,538 and went right to the front of the bunker. 297 00:13:20,669 --> 00:13:23,933 Now, he realized, I have to do something 298 00:13:24,064 --> 00:13:28,764 because I'm responsible for protecting this, 299 00:13:28,895 --> 00:13:30,984 so I got to do something. 300 00:13:31,114 --> 00:13:32,681 Even though I can't radio anybody, 301 00:13:32,812 --> 00:13:34,117 I can't radio a supervisor. 302 00:13:34,248 --> 00:13:36,903 I can't radio for assistance. 303 00:13:37,033 --> 00:13:40,602 And he kept reiterating to me during the interviews, 304 00:13:40,732 --> 00:13:41,864 you know, I've been in Vietnam. 305 00:13:41,995 --> 00:13:43,387 I've been in tight situations. 306 00:13:43,518 --> 00:13:44,649 I've been in combat. 307 00:13:44,780 --> 00:13:47,261 This is entirely different, he said. 308 00:13:47,391 --> 00:13:50,786 This is something that, I'm dealing with unknowns here. 309 00:13:50,917 --> 00:13:53,180 In Vietnam, I was dealing with enemy soldiers. 310 00:13:53,310 --> 00:13:55,008 Here, I don't know what these things are. 311 00:13:55,138 --> 00:13:57,314 If they're robots, can I harm him? 312 00:13:57,445 --> 00:13:59,012 Can I shoot him? 313 00:13:59,142 --> 00:14:03,233 But the next thing he know, the bunker doors are open. 314 00:14:03,364 --> 00:14:06,236 And he said, it happened in a flash. 315 00:14:06,367 --> 00:14:08,238 He said, normally, it would take-- 316 00:14:08,369 --> 00:14:10,893 actually, these bunkers, it would take a time period. 317 00:14:11,024 --> 00:14:14,070 It can go from seven minutes up to 15 minutes. 318 00:14:14,201 --> 00:14:15,376 >> That's right. 319 00:14:15,506 --> 00:14:17,117 >> Once you start to open these doors. 320 00:14:17,247 --> 00:14:20,381 And so, he knew this, and he knew the procedures. 321 00:14:20,511 --> 00:14:22,383 But all of a sudden, this door opened, 322 00:14:22,513 --> 00:14:26,256 the two heavy metal doors opened. 323 00:14:26,387 --> 00:14:28,476 And so, then he started moving. 324 00:14:28,606 --> 00:14:30,130 He moved around his pickup truck. 325 00:14:30,260 --> 00:14:31,958 He lost track of the second entity. 326 00:14:32,088 --> 00:14:33,263 He didn't know where it was. 327 00:14:33,394 --> 00:14:34,961 But it wasn't at the pickup because he 328 00:14:35,091 --> 00:14:38,312 moved around the pickup, and he moved towards the bunker. 329 00:14:38,442 --> 00:14:42,620 As he moved towards the bunker, he started shaking. 330 00:14:42,751 --> 00:14:46,668 His body started shaking as if his legs weighed 331 00:14:46,798 --> 00:14:48,583 a thousand pounds each. 332 00:14:48,713 --> 00:14:49,889 He dropped the shotgun. 333 00:14:50,019 --> 00:14:51,412 He couldn't hold it. 334 00:14:51,542 --> 00:14:53,936 He realized, now, I'm in trouble. 335 00:14:54,067 --> 00:14:55,503 I don't know what they're doing to me. 336 00:14:55,633 --> 00:14:56,808 Now, I'm in trouble. 337 00:14:56,939 --> 00:14:58,549 So he was just frozen there. 338 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,900 And he watched them go in, both of them, 339 00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:02,945 but he couldn't do anything. 340 00:15:03,076 --> 00:15:05,208 And so, they were only in there for, 341 00:15:05,339 --> 00:15:07,776 he said, just maybe 10 or 15 seconds. 342 00:15:07,907 --> 00:15:09,343 And they came out. 343 00:15:09,473 --> 00:15:11,998 And when they came out, they moved to the spaceship-- 344 00:15:12,128 --> 00:15:13,869 to the flying saucer. 345 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,523 He called it a spaceship. 346 00:15:15,653 --> 00:15:19,744 And the doors closed on its own, which is not possible, 347 00:15:19,875 --> 00:15:21,181 he thought. 348 00:15:21,311 --> 00:15:25,402 But once they got to the craft, he could relax. 349 00:15:25,533 --> 00:15:27,927 He immediately picked up a shotgun. 350 00:15:28,057 --> 00:15:34,150 And by the time he got himself in order, the craft took off. 351 00:15:34,281 --> 00:15:37,153 He went back to his pickup truck. 352 00:15:37,284 --> 00:15:40,026 It took off, but it hovered above the ground, 353 00:15:40,156 --> 00:15:42,593 somewhere away from the pickup truck. 354 00:15:42,724 --> 00:15:46,032 But as the engine came back on, and he 355 00:15:46,162 --> 00:15:47,772 was able to use the radio. 356 00:15:47,903 --> 00:15:51,994 And as he started hearing a radio, they were calling him. 357 00:15:52,125 --> 00:15:55,867 They were trying to call him and giving him a security status. 358 00:15:55,998 --> 00:15:59,784 And he said, I have a major problem out here. 359 00:15:59,915 --> 00:16:01,264 And he didn't say he was in trouble. 360 00:16:01,395 --> 00:16:02,831 He just said, I have a major problem out here, 361 00:16:02,962 --> 00:16:04,006 and I need a supervisor. 362 00:16:04,137 --> 00:16:06,574 And I need another patrol. 363 00:16:06,704 --> 00:16:09,359 And they said, other units are responding. 364 00:16:09,490 --> 00:16:11,361 And in fact, they sent what they would 365 00:16:11,492 --> 00:16:15,496 consider their assault team or a six-man, 366 00:16:15,626 --> 00:16:17,237 called quick reaction team. 367 00:16:17,367 --> 00:16:19,804 They were already responding, including 368 00:16:19,935 --> 00:16:21,763 some of the security policemen. 369 00:16:21,893 --> 00:16:24,940 They called them security alert team from Manzano 370 00:16:25,071 --> 00:16:27,116 was going out there to try to help. 371 00:16:27,247 --> 00:16:29,989 And from Manzano base to this bunker 372 00:16:30,119 --> 00:16:33,296 is probably 3 and 1/2 miles or so. 373 00:16:33,427 --> 00:16:37,039 Well, when the calvary showed up, 374 00:16:37,170 --> 00:16:39,520 he doesn't know what to tell anybody. 375 00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:42,349 What are they going to believe? 376 00:16:42,479 --> 00:16:44,351 So when they took him back-- they relieved him, 377 00:16:44,481 --> 00:16:45,830 and he took him back to the office. 378 00:16:45,961 --> 00:16:48,877 And he tells the story to his supervisor. 379 00:16:49,008 --> 00:16:52,185 One of the security supervisors is Russell Douglas 380 00:16:52,315 --> 00:16:54,187 was his name. 381 00:16:54,317 --> 00:16:57,973 And Russ listened to him intently 382 00:16:58,104 --> 00:17:01,455 and immediately notified OSI. 383 00:17:01,585 --> 00:17:04,197 And I was the on-call agent that night. 384 00:17:04,327 --> 00:17:06,242 And this was like 4:00 in the morning. 385 00:17:06,373 --> 00:17:08,070 By the time everything. 386 00:17:08,201 --> 00:17:10,159 So they called me. 387 00:17:10,290 --> 00:17:11,508 They said, we got a situation. 388 00:17:11,639 --> 00:17:14,468 So I went out to Sandia Security Office, 389 00:17:14,598 --> 00:17:17,384 and the guard was there. 390 00:17:17,514 --> 00:17:21,040 And Russ told me what happened. 391 00:17:21,170 --> 00:17:24,260 And I said, OK, is he hurt, injured? 392 00:17:24,391 --> 00:17:25,827 No. 393 00:17:25,957 --> 00:17:27,959 He said, he's been checked by one of our medics. 394 00:17:28,090 --> 00:17:31,267 He didn't seem to be injured in any way. 395 00:17:31,398 --> 00:17:35,663 He's a little concerned about what happened, and I said, 396 00:17:35,793 --> 00:17:37,099 what about radiation? 397 00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:39,275 And he said, we didn't check him for that. 398 00:17:39,406 --> 00:17:40,842 Maybe we should. 399 00:17:40,972 --> 00:17:42,235 I said, I think we should. 400 00:17:42,365 --> 00:17:45,020 So anyways, they got people in to do that. 401 00:17:45,151 --> 00:17:47,414 And then I walked in, and I identified myself. 402 00:17:47,544 --> 00:17:49,720 And I said, I just want to know what happened. 403 00:17:49,851 --> 00:17:50,982 And he told me. 404 00:17:51,113 --> 00:17:52,506 That's the story I just told you. 405 00:17:52,636 --> 00:17:53,898 He told me the story. 406 00:17:54,029 --> 00:17:55,596 And I said, did you fire your shotgun at it? 407 00:17:55,726 --> 00:17:57,250 No, I couldn't. 408 00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:58,990 I would have. 409 00:17:59,121 --> 00:18:00,862 I probably should have stayed back farther 410 00:18:00,992 --> 00:18:04,344 because, as I got closer, I was frozen. 411 00:18:04,474 --> 00:18:06,476 I don't know how they did it. 412 00:18:06,607 --> 00:18:07,477 I said, OK. 413 00:18:07,608 --> 00:18:10,524 And I said, did you black out? 414 00:18:10,654 --> 00:18:12,830 No, no, I never blacked out. 415 00:18:12,961 --> 00:18:15,094 He said, I just was frozen. 416 00:18:15,224 --> 00:18:16,617 I couldn't move. 417 00:18:16,747 --> 00:18:18,314 It was like, my body weighed thousands of pounds. 418 00:18:18,445 --> 00:18:20,099 I couldn't move. 419 00:18:20,229 --> 00:18:22,318 I said, did they come over to you, touch you? 420 00:18:22,449 --> 00:18:24,103 No. 421 00:18:24,233 --> 00:18:27,106 >> And he's been through a war, so he wouldn't just freeze up 422 00:18:27,236 --> 00:18:28,629 because of fear. 423 00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:30,413 It must've been some energetic field, 424 00:18:30,544 --> 00:18:32,676 if you want to talk about that. 425 00:18:32,807 --> 00:18:34,069 >> That's what we-- 426 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,811 now, this went on, this investigation 427 00:18:36,941 --> 00:18:38,204 went for a long time. 428 00:18:38,334 --> 00:18:39,901 Because the teams that got there went in 429 00:18:40,031 --> 00:18:42,730 to check on the material that's inside that bunker. 430 00:18:42,860 --> 00:18:47,256 And as they brought this stuff up, it's missing. 431 00:18:47,387 --> 00:18:49,040 There's nothing there. 432 00:18:49,171 --> 00:18:52,696 So they stole-- it wasn't a nuclear weapon. 433 00:18:52,827 --> 00:18:56,787 It was nuclear material for a weapon, 434 00:18:56,918 --> 00:19:00,400 but it was safeguarded, like a nuclear weapon. 435 00:19:00,530 --> 00:19:01,749 Anyways, it was missing. 436 00:19:01,879 --> 00:19:05,056 Well, while I was in this interview with him, 437 00:19:05,187 --> 00:19:09,191 Russ comes to the door, and he motions for me to come out. 438 00:19:09,322 --> 00:19:12,934 And I go out, and he said, the material inside that bunker 439 00:19:13,064 --> 00:19:15,154 is missing. 440 00:19:15,284 --> 00:19:17,243 Well, I didn't know what was in at that time. 441 00:19:17,373 --> 00:19:18,287 I said, well, what is it? 442 00:19:18,418 --> 00:19:19,506 Nuclear weapon? 443 00:19:19,636 --> 00:19:21,421 He said, no, it's nuclear material. 444 00:19:21,551 --> 00:19:22,726 He said, I can tell you. 445 00:19:22,857 --> 00:19:23,814 I'll give you a list of it. 446 00:19:23,945 --> 00:19:24,859 It's classified. 447 00:19:24,989 --> 00:19:26,730 And I said, yeah, I need to-- 448 00:19:26,861 --> 00:19:28,863 I don't know what it is. 449 00:19:28,993 --> 00:19:30,560 Show it. 450 00:19:30,691 --> 00:19:32,432 So he gives me a list of the things that were in there. 451 00:19:32,562 --> 00:19:35,522 And there was a package of materials 452 00:19:35,652 --> 00:19:38,916 that they could take out and put it in a nuclear weapon 453 00:19:39,047 --> 00:19:40,353 to make it function. 454 00:19:40,483 --> 00:19:42,268 It wasn't the nuclear material. 455 00:19:42,398 --> 00:19:44,661 It was components. 456 00:19:44,792 --> 00:19:46,837 They call them MC, military components. 457 00:19:46,968 --> 00:19:49,318 MC and there were numbers. 458 00:19:49,449 --> 00:19:50,754 I said, all this classified? 459 00:19:50,885 --> 00:19:52,147 Yeah, highly classified. 460 00:19:52,278 --> 00:19:54,541 I said, well, what could somebody do with it? 461 00:19:54,671 --> 00:19:58,414 And he said, if they got the nuclear material, 462 00:19:58,545 --> 00:20:01,983 the fissionable material, the uranium, or plutonium, 463 00:20:02,113 --> 00:20:04,681 or cobalt, they could make a bomb. 464 00:20:04,812 --> 00:20:06,770 Of course, now, I have to start making phone calls 465 00:20:06,901 --> 00:20:08,990 and sending everything up to headquarters 466 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,123 and getting my supervisor involved in it. 467 00:20:12,254 --> 00:20:15,649 In 1980, I'd been an OSI agent for just a couple of years. 468 00:20:15,779 --> 00:20:18,217 I'd been briefed in a lot of different programs. 469 00:20:18,347 --> 00:20:20,001 I knew about UFOs. 470 00:20:20,131 --> 00:20:22,133 I mean, I'd been briefed in that because of the Paul Bennewitz 471 00:20:22,264 --> 00:20:23,439 case. 472 00:20:23,570 --> 00:20:26,225 And so, I thought, this is legitimate. 473 00:20:26,355 --> 00:20:30,141 And as I went back in the room, I asked security, 474 00:20:30,272 --> 00:20:31,926 you need water or something? 475 00:20:32,056 --> 00:20:33,057 No, no, no, I'm good. 476 00:20:33,188 --> 00:20:34,276 He said, do you believe me? 477 00:20:34,407 --> 00:20:35,234 I said, I believe you. 478 00:20:35,364 --> 00:20:36,452 Yeah, I believe you. 479 00:20:36,583 --> 00:20:37,888 I believe you, something happened. 480 00:20:38,019 --> 00:20:40,587 >> Do you think maybe they took this stuff, 481 00:20:40,717 --> 00:20:45,505 and then it was to prevent us from utilizing it in a nuclear 482 00:20:45,635 --> 00:20:47,333 warhead? 483 00:20:47,463 --> 00:20:50,640 >> That thought crossed a number of people's minds is that they 484 00:20:50,771 --> 00:20:53,948 were trying to prevent something from happening. 485 00:20:54,078 --> 00:20:56,167 And maybe they didn't understand everything 486 00:20:56,298 --> 00:20:59,954 about our nuclear weapons or nuclear materials, 487 00:21:00,084 --> 00:21:03,349 so they were going to, maybe, analyze it and determine 488 00:21:03,479 --> 00:21:07,048 it could be used for war-making or something like that, 489 00:21:07,178 --> 00:21:08,571 and they didn't want that to happen. 490 00:21:08,702 --> 00:21:10,312 That's just a guess on our part because we 491 00:21:10,443 --> 00:21:12,662 don't know how aliens think. 492 00:21:12,793 --> 00:21:19,887 I told him, I said, the material inside a bunker is missing. 493 00:21:20,017 --> 00:21:23,238 He said, I'm going to get fired. 494 00:21:23,369 --> 00:21:25,980 And I said, don't worry about anything like that right now. 495 00:21:26,110 --> 00:21:27,808 I said, you did your job. 496 00:21:27,938 --> 00:21:29,026 He said, I tried. 497 00:21:29,157 --> 00:21:31,246 They froze me. 498 00:21:31,377 --> 00:21:34,205 He said, but I don't know how I am going to prove that. 499 00:21:34,336 --> 00:21:36,120 Because people are going to think I'm a coward, 500 00:21:36,251 --> 00:21:38,906 and I didn't try to shoot them. 501 00:21:39,036 --> 00:21:41,169 My responsibility is guarding that material, 502 00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:43,389 and I didn't do that. 503 00:21:43,519 --> 00:21:46,392 So we're not concerned about that quite yet. 504 00:21:46,522 --> 00:21:49,046 We're concerned about material, where it went. 505 00:21:49,177 --> 00:21:53,181 He said, it went in that spacecraft in outer space. 506 00:21:53,312 --> 00:21:56,402 He gave me really a detailed description, 507 00:21:56,532 --> 00:22:00,144 and he actually was able to sketch what 508 00:22:00,275 --> 00:22:02,103 these entities looked like. 509 00:22:02,233 --> 00:22:06,281 And what he sketched, I wish I had them here now. 510 00:22:06,412 --> 00:22:08,239 They were all classified in Washington. 511 00:22:08,370 --> 00:22:11,242 But they look like little space people 512 00:22:11,373 --> 00:22:14,245 that you would see in space shows. 513 00:22:14,376 --> 00:22:15,595 >> Like a pop culture type. 514 00:22:15,725 --> 00:22:16,770 >> Yeah, like a pop culture. 515 00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:19,120 They had helmets-- huge helmets. 516 00:22:19,250 --> 00:22:21,165 He said, he didn't know, if it was 517 00:22:21,296 --> 00:22:23,646 because they needed an environmental air 518 00:22:23,777 --> 00:22:26,736 or something inside that, or if their heads were that big. 519 00:22:26,867 --> 00:22:28,390 He couldn't determine that. 520 00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:30,653 Or if it was just a robot. 521 00:22:30,784 --> 00:22:33,090 But I said, I confronted him with this. 522 00:22:33,221 --> 00:22:37,007 I said, you said that the helmet was big with a tube. 523 00:22:37,138 --> 00:22:38,574 >> Yeah, and respirators or something. 524 00:22:38,705 --> 00:22:39,880 >> He said, yeah. 525 00:22:40,010 --> 00:22:41,055 I said, well, if it was a robot, they 526 00:22:41,185 --> 00:22:42,622 wouldn't need to breathe air. 527 00:22:42,752 --> 00:22:45,276 And he thought, oh, yeah, that's right. 528 00:22:45,407 --> 00:22:46,669 So they must have been real. 529 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,497 He says, it must have been extraterrestrial. 530 00:22:48,628 --> 00:22:50,717 I say, yeah, probably were. 531 00:22:50,847 --> 00:22:53,894 Now, at that time in my career, I 532 00:22:54,024 --> 00:22:56,897 hadn't been briefed in all the different extraterrestrial 533 00:22:57,027 --> 00:22:58,028 races or anything like that. 534 00:22:58,159 --> 00:22:59,465 So we continued. 535 00:22:59,595 --> 00:23:03,556 He gave us a description, and that was it. 536 00:23:03,686 --> 00:23:06,472 And I said, well, you go home and get some sleep. 537 00:23:06,602 --> 00:23:09,300 And we'll continue it at some other time. 538 00:23:09,431 --> 00:23:11,651 >> Was it happening at any other facilities, 539 00:23:11,781 --> 00:23:14,871 any other bases that we controlled? 540 00:23:15,002 --> 00:23:15,959 >> Yes. 541 00:23:16,090 --> 00:23:17,744 >> There were at the same time? 542 00:23:17,874 --> 00:23:20,660 >> There were other cases that happened during that same time 543 00:23:20,790 --> 00:23:21,922 period. 544 00:23:22,052 --> 00:23:23,880 But what's interesting, we were going 545 00:23:24,011 --> 00:23:26,927 to setup another interview with the security guard. 546 00:23:27,057 --> 00:23:31,410 And Russ called me and said, can you come over? 547 00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:32,889 I got some additional information. 548 00:23:33,020 --> 00:23:34,369 I'm not going to share on the phone. 549 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:36,110 I said, sure. 550 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,374 So I drive over to his office, and I said, what do you got? 551 00:23:39,505 --> 00:23:44,858 He said, another security guard, same thing happened to him. 552 00:23:44,988 --> 00:23:46,076 I said, when? 553 00:23:46,207 --> 00:23:48,601 It's about two weeks ago, he said. 554 00:23:48,731 --> 00:23:49,906 But he shot him. 555 00:23:50,037 --> 00:23:52,953 He fired his shotgun at him. 556 00:23:53,083 --> 00:23:57,479 I said, well, OK, did he do a report? 557 00:23:57,610 --> 00:23:59,873 No, he's just told us this now. 558 00:24:00,003 --> 00:24:01,178 He covered it up. 559 00:24:01,309 --> 00:24:02,484 And it was a different bunker. 560 00:24:02,615 --> 00:24:04,399 It wasn't the same bunker. 561 00:24:04,530 --> 00:24:06,662 And it had nuclear material in it. 562 00:24:06,793 --> 00:24:10,318 As these two entities got out, and he 563 00:24:10,449 --> 00:24:13,016 described in exactly the same way as the other security guard 564 00:24:13,147 --> 00:24:13,930 did. 565 00:24:14,061 --> 00:24:15,889 He fired a shotgun. 566 00:24:16,019 --> 00:24:17,238 Four slugs he had. 567 00:24:17,368 --> 00:24:19,153 There's so many slugs in the shotgun. 568 00:24:19,283 --> 00:24:21,982 He fired all four at him. 569 00:24:22,112 --> 00:24:24,288 And the bullets just-- the slugs. 570 00:24:24,419 --> 00:24:26,377 They were shotgun slugs. 571 00:24:26,508 --> 00:24:31,382 They just seemed to dissipate, as they never hit him. 572 00:24:31,513 --> 00:24:32,732 They just kind of dissipate. 573 00:24:32,862 --> 00:24:35,691 But it got their attention to a point 574 00:24:35,822 --> 00:24:38,781 where it pulled the shotgun away from his hands, 575 00:24:38,912 --> 00:24:41,001 and it fell on the ground. 576 00:24:41,131 --> 00:24:45,440 And then he backed up, they went into this bunker, 577 00:24:45,571 --> 00:24:49,618 came back out, did the same exact thing, and flew away. 578 00:24:49,749 --> 00:24:52,012 Well, he went over and got the shotgun, 579 00:24:52,142 --> 00:24:56,582 and he replaced the slugs with his own slugs 580 00:24:56,712 --> 00:24:58,018 and never reported it. 581 00:24:58,148 --> 00:24:59,802 >> Did they go out and do another investigation 582 00:24:59,933 --> 00:25:01,021 of the area and find anything? 583 00:25:01,151 --> 00:25:01,848 >> Exactly. 584 00:25:01,978 --> 00:25:02,979 We went out there. 585 00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:04,459 But this was several weeks-- 586 00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:06,026 >> Yes, of course. 587 00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:08,855 >> --before, so there wasn't any evidence out there. 588 00:25:08,985 --> 00:25:10,639 But he had it in a bag. 589 00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:14,774 He had the spent shotgun shells in the bag that he gave to me. 590 00:25:14,904 --> 00:25:17,820 He said, those are the ones that were the Sandia issued to me. 591 00:25:17,951 --> 00:25:19,126 And I put mine. 592 00:25:19,256 --> 00:25:21,041 I know I'm going to get fired for it, 593 00:25:21,171 --> 00:25:23,522 but I know so-and-so, the other security guard, 594 00:25:23,652 --> 00:25:25,611 and I want to report that it happened to me, too. 595 00:25:25,741 --> 00:25:27,308 I said, well, why didn't you report it? 596 00:25:27,438 --> 00:25:29,005 He said, I was scared to death to report. 597 00:25:29,136 --> 00:25:31,530 Nobody's going to believe me. 598 00:25:31,660 --> 00:25:35,664 He said, plus, I shot my shotgun, and nothing happened. 599 00:25:35,795 --> 00:25:37,361 I don't even know where those slugs went. 600 00:25:37,492 --> 00:25:38,537 We can't find them. 601 00:25:38,667 --> 00:25:40,626 I went over and looked around it. 602 00:25:40,756 --> 00:25:43,759 It maybe just absorbed into the bodies. 603 00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:46,632 Now, he never described them as robots. 604 00:25:46,762 --> 00:25:50,287 He described them as real creatures or real entities. 605 00:25:50,418 --> 00:25:53,726 And then he also said, he heard them speaking. 606 00:25:53,856 --> 00:25:55,815 They were speaking like they were 607 00:25:55,945 --> 00:25:58,208 yelling at each other, high-pitched voices, back 608 00:25:58,339 --> 00:25:59,993 and forth. 609 00:26:00,123 --> 00:26:02,691 Well, the other guard never never heard any kind of voices. 610 00:26:02,822 --> 00:26:04,301 >> Did he recognize that language? 611 00:26:04,432 --> 00:26:05,346 >> No. 612 00:26:05,476 --> 00:26:07,522 He said, it was just screaming. 613 00:26:07,653 --> 00:26:09,742 That's basically what he told me. 614 00:26:09,872 --> 00:26:13,833 But there were different pitches from one to the other. 615 00:26:13,963 --> 00:26:18,315 So he realized, one had a different pitch in its voice 616 00:26:18,446 --> 00:26:19,665 than the other. 617 00:26:19,795 --> 00:26:22,015 But he could hear it. 618 00:26:22,145 --> 00:26:24,104 And as if they were communicating 619 00:26:24,234 --> 00:26:26,367 to do whatever they were doing. 620 00:26:26,497 --> 00:26:28,587 >> Wasn't there other witnesses that you said earlier, 621 00:26:28,717 --> 00:26:30,371 who was called in on the first one. 622 00:26:30,501 --> 00:26:33,592 Was there any witnesses on the second one? 623 00:26:33,722 --> 00:26:35,289 >> The incident happened, I think, 624 00:26:35,419 --> 00:26:37,291 it was four weeks earlier. 625 00:26:37,421 --> 00:26:42,296 Security police at Manzano saw another light coming to Canyon, 626 00:26:42,426 --> 00:26:44,037 but never reported it. 627 00:26:44,167 --> 00:26:46,822 Didn't know what it was, thought it was just a helicopter. 628 00:26:46,953 --> 00:26:49,042 We interviewed those security policemen later. 629 00:26:49,172 --> 00:26:51,653 They said, well, we've seen a lot of lights 630 00:26:51,784 --> 00:26:53,394 out there, a lot of helicopters. 631 00:26:53,524 --> 00:26:56,005 There's training out there all the time. 632 00:26:56,136 --> 00:26:59,661 The Pararescue school, Air Force Pararescue school, 633 00:26:59,792 --> 00:27:01,010 they do training out there. 634 00:27:01,141 --> 00:27:02,882 We don't think anything of it. 635 00:27:03,012 --> 00:27:07,147 We saw it that particular night, which we identified 636 00:27:07,277 --> 00:27:09,453 from the second security guard. 637 00:27:09,584 --> 00:27:13,544 And plus, they have, on top of the mountain, 638 00:27:13,675 --> 00:27:15,590 they have a camera, a long-range-- 639 00:27:15,721 --> 00:27:20,334 it's called a long-range scanner camera. 640 00:27:20,464 --> 00:27:25,034 But it only records things for a 24-hour period. 641 00:27:25,165 --> 00:27:29,691 So you can't go back and look beyond the 24-- it erases it. 642 00:27:29,822 --> 00:27:31,432 It only has a-- 643 00:27:31,562 --> 00:27:34,043 this is 1980 technology, so they didn't have the hard drives 644 00:27:34,174 --> 00:27:36,829 that could store any. 645 00:27:36,959 --> 00:27:41,355 However, when I first learned about it-- 646 00:27:41,485 --> 00:27:45,925 I didn't, but our tech technical people knew about the camera. 647 00:27:46,055 --> 00:27:48,275 So the first incident that we investigated, 648 00:27:48,405 --> 00:27:50,712 we got the footage on that. 649 00:27:50,843 --> 00:27:52,627 We got the footage. 650 00:27:52,758 --> 00:27:55,412 However, the camera only goes in one direction. 651 00:27:55,543 --> 00:27:57,458 It doesn't point down. 652 00:27:57,588 --> 00:28:00,591 So all you see is this thing coming in and land, 653 00:28:00,722 --> 00:28:03,203 and you can't see anything else that's happening in the ground. 654 00:28:03,333 --> 00:28:04,465 >> It's a fixed horizon. 655 00:28:04,595 --> 00:28:05,814 >> Exactly. 656 00:28:05,945 --> 00:28:09,252 But what they did was, they took frames, 657 00:28:09,383 --> 00:28:13,430 and they actually were able to look at, and identify, 658 00:28:13,561 --> 00:28:18,740 and take a frame picture of that saucer-shaped craft. 659 00:28:18,871 --> 00:28:21,221 And when it went up to headquarters, 660 00:28:21,351 --> 00:28:22,483 they identified it. 661 00:28:22,613 --> 00:28:24,528 Although, I never was told because, 662 00:28:24,659 --> 00:28:28,445 at the ground level, my level, I didn't have a need to know. 663 00:28:28,576 --> 00:28:36,018 But in headquarters knew exactly what particular entity. 664 00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:37,585 >> So they knew what race. 665 00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:42,155 They obviously seen this craft before and compared it 666 00:28:42,285 --> 00:28:43,939 to, maybe, other incidences. 667 00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:47,334 Did you ever find out ever what it was? 668 00:28:47,464 --> 00:28:48,596 >> It took me some time. 669 00:28:48,727 --> 00:28:50,467 But eventually, I found out that it 670 00:28:50,598 --> 00:28:52,905 was a craft flown by the Grays. 671 00:28:53,035 --> 00:28:58,388 But the identities of the operators of the Grays' craft 672 00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:01,391 that have been seen and witnessed and investigated 673 00:29:01,522 --> 00:29:04,568 a number of different occasions around military installations 674 00:29:04,699 --> 00:29:08,007 in the past, didn't fit the entities 675 00:29:08,137 --> 00:29:09,573 that came out of the craft. 676 00:29:09,704 --> 00:29:12,838 So they thought, maybe, they were, in fact, some kind 677 00:29:12,968 --> 00:29:15,971 of robots or maybe hybrids. 678 00:29:16,102 --> 00:29:17,494 >> Programmed life forms maybe. 679 00:29:17,625 --> 00:29:19,061 >> Programmed life forms. 680 00:29:19,192 --> 00:29:20,584 Yeah, exactly. 681 00:29:20,715 --> 00:29:23,239 But I didn't know any more than that, about that. 682 00:29:23,370 --> 00:29:26,329 But ironically, during that same time period in 1980, 683 00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:29,768 there were a number of other incidents 684 00:29:29,898 --> 00:29:31,770 that happened at military installations, 685 00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:34,947 missile sites around the United States, 686 00:29:35,077 --> 00:29:38,037 exactly the same thing, including 687 00:29:38,167 --> 00:29:42,084 one particular incident, which is still highly classified, 688 00:29:42,215 --> 00:29:44,086 where they actually took a nuclear weapon. 689 00:29:44,217 --> 00:29:51,441 They took a W-28 a warhead, and a W-28 warhead 690 00:29:51,572 --> 00:29:55,010 was a one megaton gravity-dropped bomb. 691 00:29:55,141 --> 00:30:01,669 It was missing out of a storage area at a strategic air command 692 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,932 based in the United States. 693 00:30:04,063 --> 00:30:07,240 So these things have happened in the past. 694 00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:10,896 >> Are these security forces briefed on extraterrestrial 695 00:30:11,026 --> 00:30:14,464 activity, and the beings, and entities, and also the craft? 696 00:30:14,595 --> 00:30:17,641 >> Well, they weren't until all these incidents started 697 00:30:17,772 --> 00:30:18,904 happening. 698 00:30:19,034 --> 00:30:20,993 And then, they started being briefed. 699 00:30:21,123 --> 00:30:23,952 They were given a classified briefing 700 00:30:24,083 --> 00:30:25,388 on a need-to-know basis. 701 00:30:25,519 --> 00:30:27,956 If they were guarding a nuclear weapon storage 702 00:30:28,087 --> 00:30:31,960 area or a missile site, the security policemen 703 00:30:32,091 --> 00:30:35,050 operate in the field, the missile fields, launch control 704 00:30:35,181 --> 00:30:38,053 facilities, these security policemen 705 00:30:38,184 --> 00:30:42,884 were given a classified briefing that they may encounter 706 00:30:43,015 --> 00:30:46,235 something unknown an unknown aircraft, 707 00:30:46,366 --> 00:30:51,850 flying in with unknown entities on board or they use creatures. 708 00:30:51,980 --> 00:30:55,462 And they were to follow these set procedures. 709 00:30:55,592 --> 00:30:58,944 And there were set procedures, but they were in a case, 710 00:30:59,074 --> 00:31:02,599 and they were only to be broken open if they were responding 711 00:31:02,730 --> 00:31:04,036 to an incident like that. 712 00:31:04,166 --> 00:31:07,126 And the procedures were classified, 713 00:31:07,256 --> 00:31:09,476 but they were in this case that they 714 00:31:09,606 --> 00:31:13,219 would break open and pull out if they actually ever responded. 715 00:31:13,349 --> 00:31:16,483 And this came in the late '70s and early '80s. 716 00:31:16,613 --> 00:31:17,876 >> Yeah. 717 00:31:18,006 --> 00:31:19,878 I know today, for a fact, that they now 718 00:31:20,008 --> 00:31:23,055 have specific protocols for those individuals that 719 00:31:23,185 --> 00:31:26,536 are guarding sensitive materials of what 720 00:31:26,667 --> 00:31:29,104 to do in case of the event of, I'll 721 00:31:29,235 --> 00:31:31,890 just say, as you said earlier, they do still 722 00:31:32,020 --> 00:31:36,851 use those terms of creatures, as they did in the early '80s, 723 00:31:36,982 --> 00:31:39,071 if they were actually approached or if they seen this. 724 00:31:39,201 --> 00:31:40,811 >> Yeah. 725 00:31:40,942 --> 00:31:44,815 We had a Lieutenant Colonel Ronald Gray give a presentation 726 00:31:44,946 --> 00:31:48,994 at a UFO convention about this a few years ago, 727 00:31:49,124 --> 00:31:53,041 and he talked about what the new procedures are now, 728 00:31:53,172 --> 00:31:54,651 compared to years ago. 729 00:31:54,782 --> 00:31:56,088 They were never briefed. 730 00:31:56,218 --> 00:31:59,743 And so they were never able to function or know 731 00:31:59,874 --> 00:32:03,008 what to do if some ET aircraft landed. 732 00:32:03,138 --> 00:32:05,184 But now, as you said, there are set 733 00:32:05,314 --> 00:32:09,231 procedures that are classified of what to do, step-by-step. 734 00:32:09,362 --> 00:32:11,538 >> Could you share with us on any of these protocols from 735 00:32:11,668 --> 00:32:12,234 back then? 736 00:32:12,365 --> 00:32:14,062 >> Yeah. 737 00:32:14,193 --> 00:32:16,151 Some of the protocols-- and I don't know every one of them, 738 00:32:16,282 --> 00:32:18,458 and I think there were something like 10 or 12 of them. 739 00:32:18,588 --> 00:32:20,460 And there were secondary ones. 740 00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:24,203 If you do this, and that doesn't work, you do this. 741 00:32:24,333 --> 00:32:30,557 And so, the first one is, do not fire at the craft nor fire 742 00:32:30,687 --> 00:32:32,341 at the creature or the entities. 743 00:32:32,472 --> 00:32:34,126 >> Correct. 744 00:32:34,256 --> 00:32:38,304 >> I'll use entities here, but the words in this was creature. 745 00:32:38,434 --> 00:32:41,611 Secondly, do not approach the craft. 746 00:32:41,742 --> 00:32:45,528 Stay away from the craft, and never, never 747 00:32:45,659 --> 00:32:48,140 approach the entities. 748 00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:52,100 Number three, immediately notify central security control 749 00:32:52,231 --> 00:32:55,321 or launch control facility dispatch. 750 00:32:55,451 --> 00:32:59,020 And it was watch, observe, and detect, 751 00:32:59,151 --> 00:33:02,284 whether there's any other crafts flying around. 752 00:33:02,415 --> 00:33:04,895 If that's the only one on the ground, OK. 753 00:33:05,026 --> 00:33:08,899 But keep a lookout for any other crafts flying in the area, 754 00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:11,380 maybe on a recon mission or something like that. 755 00:33:11,511 --> 00:33:16,124 And then one of them, I can remember is, don't be fooled. 756 00:33:16,255 --> 00:33:21,390 Don't be fooled by a possibility that a Soviet or this could be 757 00:33:21,521 --> 00:33:25,003 a Soviet-staged event or a hostile-- 758 00:33:25,133 --> 00:33:27,266 I think it was a hostile country event. 759 00:33:27,396 --> 00:33:28,832 And during that time period, it would 760 00:33:28,963 --> 00:33:30,399 have been the Soviets or the Chinese, 761 00:33:30,530 --> 00:33:34,055 but primarily, we were concerned about the Russians. 762 00:33:34,186 --> 00:33:39,974 And make sure it wasn't staged by or it was an exercise. 763 00:33:40,105 --> 00:33:43,934 Never shoot your exercise opponents, 764 00:33:44,065 --> 00:33:45,849 something to that effect. 765 00:33:45,980 --> 00:33:47,982 So those things, I can remember that was on there. 766 00:33:48,113 --> 00:33:50,028 Now, there were many others. 767 00:33:50,158 --> 00:33:52,769 And as I understand, there is even-- 768 00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:56,208 if you had to shoot, you had to shoot 769 00:33:56,338 --> 00:33:59,994 in a certain area the entity's body and things like that. 770 00:34:00,125 --> 00:34:05,217 I think one of them was, if you had to engage, 771 00:34:05,347 --> 00:34:08,568 you would shoot at any environmental protection 772 00:34:08,698 --> 00:34:12,659 that this entity had, such as breathing apparatus, disrupt 773 00:34:12,789 --> 00:34:16,445 the breathing apparatus, or some other environmental control 774 00:34:16,576 --> 00:34:19,970 first rather than trying to shoot into the body. 775 00:34:20,101 --> 00:34:22,712 Disable the entity. 776 00:34:22,843 --> 00:34:23,539 >> That makes sense. 777 00:34:23,670 --> 00:34:25,237 >> Yeah. 778 00:34:25,367 --> 00:34:26,412 Rick, do you think there was a message in all of this? 779 00:34:26,542 --> 00:34:27,674 >> Oh, absolutely. 780 00:34:27,804 --> 00:34:28,892 There was a message. 781 00:34:29,023 --> 00:34:31,634 I don't think, at the time, I was 782 00:34:31,765 --> 00:34:34,898 in a position to determine what that message was. 783 00:34:35,029 --> 00:34:38,641 But there were supervisors above me, many people above me. 784 00:34:38,772 --> 00:34:40,469 >> Different opinions, probably. 785 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,733 >> Different opinions, trying to figure out why. 786 00:34:43,864 --> 00:34:48,303 Why are they only targeting nuclear weapons storage areas 787 00:34:48,434 --> 00:34:51,959 or nuclear weapon complexes or missile silos? 788 00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:56,050 Now my personal opinion is, what we talked about earlier. 789 00:34:56,181 --> 00:35:01,490 I think that they don't know everything about us, maybe, 790 00:35:01,621 --> 00:35:04,493 but they know that we have this nuclear weapon. 791 00:35:04,624 --> 00:35:06,147 They've seen it tested. 792 00:35:06,278 --> 00:35:10,456 They probably watched testing at the Nevada test site 793 00:35:10,586 --> 00:35:13,546 or saw what we were doing underground at the Nevada test 794 00:35:13,676 --> 00:35:16,723 site after 1962. 795 00:35:16,853 --> 00:35:19,029 I think the moratorium was in '62. 796 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,901 They went from above ground. 797 00:35:21,031 --> 00:35:22,468 They probably were in the Pacific, 798 00:35:22,598 --> 00:35:25,906 watching us detonate nuclear weapons. 799 00:35:26,036 --> 00:35:28,778 They knew they were harmful. 800 00:35:28,909 --> 00:35:33,566 And maybe they were concerned about us as a society, 801 00:35:33,696 --> 00:35:35,916 and they decided, OK, let's steal this stuff 802 00:35:36,046 --> 00:35:37,657 and keep them from making more. 803 00:35:37,787 --> 00:35:43,141 I mean, in reality, that probably sounds pretty 804 00:35:43,271 --> 00:35:47,232 farfetched because we have so many different nuclear weapons 805 00:35:47,362 --> 00:35:50,844 storage areas and not just us, but the Soviet Union 806 00:35:50,974 --> 00:35:52,672 had thousands. 807 00:35:52,802 --> 00:35:55,544 China had thousands, even France, 808 00:35:55,675 --> 00:35:57,329 and Britain had thousands. 809 00:35:57,459 --> 00:35:59,461 And what do we do? 810 00:35:59,592 --> 00:36:01,289 How do you handle something like that. 811 00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:03,161 Or how do you determine, OK, what's 812 00:36:03,291 --> 00:36:05,163 our next course of action because they're 813 00:36:05,293 --> 00:36:07,513 stealing our nuclear weapons? 814 00:36:07,643 --> 00:36:09,993 >> With working with all the scientists that you have worked 815 00:36:10,124 --> 00:36:13,736 with and everyone in intelligence, do you believe, 816 00:36:13,867 --> 00:36:17,349 in any way, that maybe we're affecting 817 00:36:17,479 --> 00:36:19,307 the extraterrestrials, and their race, 818 00:36:19,438 --> 00:36:22,397 and their homes with our nuclear activity. 819 00:36:22,528 --> 00:36:25,400 >> I do, and they do. 820 00:36:25,531 --> 00:36:28,577 I spoke to many scientists at Sandia National Laboratories 821 00:36:28,708 --> 00:36:30,100 during this time period. 822 00:36:30,231 --> 00:36:36,019 And their concern was that maybe we, our country-- 823 00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:38,587 we were only talking about the United States-- 824 00:36:38,718 --> 00:36:42,330 during our thousands of nuclear tests, 825 00:36:42,461 --> 00:36:48,423 have disrupted something that we don't realize that we're doing, 826 00:36:48,554 --> 00:36:52,558 something in the atmosphere, something that's traveling away 827 00:36:52,688 --> 00:36:55,865 from Earth to their planet, or something 828 00:36:55,996 --> 00:36:59,086 that they have here on our planet 829 00:36:59,217 --> 00:37:00,653 that they're trying to safeguard. 830 00:37:00,783 --> 00:37:06,528 Now, that presents an entirely another subject matter. 831 00:37:06,659 --> 00:37:10,489 OK, for instance, if the ETs have a base here, 832 00:37:10,619 --> 00:37:15,929 whether it be under the ocean, underground, in Antarctica, 833 00:37:16,059 --> 00:37:17,626 or someplace. 834 00:37:17,757 --> 00:37:20,325 And these nuclear weapons testing that we're doing 835 00:37:20,455 --> 00:37:23,850 or we did then is disrupting their home 836 00:37:23,980 --> 00:37:27,462 or disrupting their base on planet Earth. 837 00:37:27,593 --> 00:37:28,942 >> Rick, this was a great episode. 838 00:37:29,072 --> 00:37:30,509 I love doing this interview with you 839 00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:32,511 because I was stationed at Kirtland, as you know, 840 00:37:32,641 --> 00:37:34,077 and it brings back a lot of memories. 841 00:37:34,208 --> 00:37:35,601 Thanks for being on the show. 842 00:37:35,731 --> 00:37:36,689 >> Great to be here, Emery. 843 00:37:36,819 --> 00:37:38,299 Thank you. 844 00:37:38,430 --> 00:37:40,170 >> I'm Emery Smith, and this is "Cosmic Disclosure." 845 00:37:40,301 --> 00:37:42,347 Until next time.